How do I deal with “crossing resistances”?
I'm doing some physics homework calculating the total resistance between points A and B and while some circuits are comprehensible, there are two that I can't understand how they work at all.
So, it is my pleasure to present to you these two monstrosities:
How do I approach the crossing resistances in each one? Here's where I am as of writing this post:
The divided square:
- The two 10k resistances are parallel to each other
- The 20k and 9k resistances are parallel to each other
- I don't know what to do with the 5k one
The hellborn triangles of death:
- The first and last pair of 5k resistances are parallel to each other
- The bottom center 5k resistance is in series with the previous two couples
- I don't know what to do with the 15k ones
So, long story short, how should I handle these situations when the resistances are connected by both sides and the circuit looks like the voltage should converge inside them and start burning?
homework-and-exercises electric-circuits electrical-resistance
New contributor
add a comment |
I'm doing some physics homework calculating the total resistance between points A and B and while some circuits are comprehensible, there are two that I can't understand how they work at all.
So, it is my pleasure to present to you these two monstrosities:
How do I approach the crossing resistances in each one? Here's where I am as of writing this post:
The divided square:
- The two 10k resistances are parallel to each other
- The 20k and 9k resistances are parallel to each other
- I don't know what to do with the 5k one
The hellborn triangles of death:
- The first and last pair of 5k resistances are parallel to each other
- The bottom center 5k resistance is in series with the previous two couples
- I don't know what to do with the 15k ones
So, long story short, how should I handle these situations when the resistances are connected by both sides and the circuit looks like the voltage should converge inside them and start burning?
homework-and-exercises electric-circuits electrical-resistance
New contributor
2
Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago
add a comment |
I'm doing some physics homework calculating the total resistance between points A and B and while some circuits are comprehensible, there are two that I can't understand how they work at all.
So, it is my pleasure to present to you these two monstrosities:
How do I approach the crossing resistances in each one? Here's where I am as of writing this post:
The divided square:
- The two 10k resistances are parallel to each other
- The 20k and 9k resistances are parallel to each other
- I don't know what to do with the 5k one
The hellborn triangles of death:
- The first and last pair of 5k resistances are parallel to each other
- The bottom center 5k resistance is in series with the previous two couples
- I don't know what to do with the 15k ones
So, long story short, how should I handle these situations when the resistances are connected by both sides and the circuit looks like the voltage should converge inside them and start burning?
homework-and-exercises electric-circuits electrical-resistance
New contributor
I'm doing some physics homework calculating the total resistance between points A and B and while some circuits are comprehensible, there are two that I can't understand how they work at all.
So, it is my pleasure to present to you these two monstrosities:
How do I approach the crossing resistances in each one? Here's where I am as of writing this post:
The divided square:
- The two 10k resistances are parallel to each other
- The 20k and 9k resistances are parallel to each other
- I don't know what to do with the 5k one
The hellborn triangles of death:
- The first and last pair of 5k resistances are parallel to each other
- The bottom center 5k resistance is in series with the previous two couples
- I don't know what to do with the 15k ones
So, long story short, how should I handle these situations when the resistances are connected by both sides and the circuit looks like the voltage should converge inside them and start burning?
homework-and-exercises electric-circuits electrical-resistance
homework-and-exercises electric-circuits electrical-resistance
New contributor
New contributor
edited 31 mins ago
David Z♦
63.2k23136252
63.2k23136252
New contributor
asked 2 hours ago
GroctelGroctel
485
485
New contributor
New contributor
2
Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago
add a comment |
2
Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago
2
2
Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Try then to apply the Y-$Delta$ tranformations! I am glad you found the light! If you cannot carry calculation drop again here a line and i'll try to work more on the answer!
New contributor
add a comment |
For the top one, you can separate out the $9 kOmega$ resistor at the top, since it's in series with the rest. Now you have a graph with four nodes and five edges. You can assign the variables $V_1$ through $V_4$ to the nodes, but WLOG you can consider the top node to be 0 and the bottom to be 1, so that leaves just the left and right voltages. You then have currents $I_1$ through $I_5$ through the edges. You can then start applying the circuit laws to these variables: for each edge, the current is equal to change in voltage divided by the resistance. The net current through each edge is zero (if you take current flowing in to be positive and current flowing out to be negative, that is). You'll then get a bunch of equations, and solving them will give the effective resistances.
It's probably best to work out what the effective resistances are from basic principles and algebra first, and then try to work through applying Y-Δ to get a sense of how that works.
Also, any symmetry in the diagram should be preserved in the values. The second circuit has left-right symmetries, so the currents should be symmetrical: the two top resistors should have the same currents as each other, the two outsides diagonal resistors should have the same as each other, and the two inside diagonal should have the same as each other. So you can use just four variables to represent the nine different currents.
add a comment |
As Pietro Oliva (is there a way to mention a user?) pointed out, I have to use the Y-Δ transformations to change how the circuit is viewed.
Thanks for the super fast answer!
New contributor
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Try then to apply the Y-$Delta$ tranformations! I am glad you found the light! If you cannot carry calculation drop again here a line and i'll try to work more on the answer!
New contributor
add a comment |
Try then to apply the Y-$Delta$ tranformations! I am glad you found the light! If you cannot carry calculation drop again here a line and i'll try to work more on the answer!
New contributor
add a comment |
Try then to apply the Y-$Delta$ tranformations! I am glad you found the light! If you cannot carry calculation drop again here a line and i'll try to work more on the answer!
New contributor
Try then to apply the Y-$Delta$ tranformations! I am glad you found the light! If you cannot carry calculation drop again here a line and i'll try to work more on the answer!
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
Pietro OlivaPietro Oliva
1137
1137
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add a comment |
add a comment |
For the top one, you can separate out the $9 kOmega$ resistor at the top, since it's in series with the rest. Now you have a graph with four nodes and five edges. You can assign the variables $V_1$ through $V_4$ to the nodes, but WLOG you can consider the top node to be 0 and the bottom to be 1, so that leaves just the left and right voltages. You then have currents $I_1$ through $I_5$ through the edges. You can then start applying the circuit laws to these variables: for each edge, the current is equal to change in voltage divided by the resistance. The net current through each edge is zero (if you take current flowing in to be positive and current flowing out to be negative, that is). You'll then get a bunch of equations, and solving them will give the effective resistances.
It's probably best to work out what the effective resistances are from basic principles and algebra first, and then try to work through applying Y-Δ to get a sense of how that works.
Also, any symmetry in the diagram should be preserved in the values. The second circuit has left-right symmetries, so the currents should be symmetrical: the two top resistors should have the same currents as each other, the two outsides diagonal resistors should have the same as each other, and the two inside diagonal should have the same as each other. So you can use just four variables to represent the nine different currents.
add a comment |
For the top one, you can separate out the $9 kOmega$ resistor at the top, since it's in series with the rest. Now you have a graph with four nodes and five edges. You can assign the variables $V_1$ through $V_4$ to the nodes, but WLOG you can consider the top node to be 0 and the bottom to be 1, so that leaves just the left and right voltages. You then have currents $I_1$ through $I_5$ through the edges. You can then start applying the circuit laws to these variables: for each edge, the current is equal to change in voltage divided by the resistance. The net current through each edge is zero (if you take current flowing in to be positive and current flowing out to be negative, that is). You'll then get a bunch of equations, and solving them will give the effective resistances.
It's probably best to work out what the effective resistances are from basic principles and algebra first, and then try to work through applying Y-Δ to get a sense of how that works.
Also, any symmetry in the diagram should be preserved in the values. The second circuit has left-right symmetries, so the currents should be symmetrical: the two top resistors should have the same currents as each other, the two outsides diagonal resistors should have the same as each other, and the two inside diagonal should have the same as each other. So you can use just four variables to represent the nine different currents.
add a comment |
For the top one, you can separate out the $9 kOmega$ resistor at the top, since it's in series with the rest. Now you have a graph with four nodes and five edges. You can assign the variables $V_1$ through $V_4$ to the nodes, but WLOG you can consider the top node to be 0 and the bottom to be 1, so that leaves just the left and right voltages. You then have currents $I_1$ through $I_5$ through the edges. You can then start applying the circuit laws to these variables: for each edge, the current is equal to change in voltage divided by the resistance. The net current through each edge is zero (if you take current flowing in to be positive and current flowing out to be negative, that is). You'll then get a bunch of equations, and solving them will give the effective resistances.
It's probably best to work out what the effective resistances are from basic principles and algebra first, and then try to work through applying Y-Δ to get a sense of how that works.
Also, any symmetry in the diagram should be preserved in the values. The second circuit has left-right symmetries, so the currents should be symmetrical: the two top resistors should have the same currents as each other, the two outsides diagonal resistors should have the same as each other, and the two inside diagonal should have the same as each other. So you can use just four variables to represent the nine different currents.
For the top one, you can separate out the $9 kOmega$ resistor at the top, since it's in series with the rest. Now you have a graph with four nodes and five edges. You can assign the variables $V_1$ through $V_4$ to the nodes, but WLOG you can consider the top node to be 0 and the bottom to be 1, so that leaves just the left and right voltages. You then have currents $I_1$ through $I_5$ through the edges. You can then start applying the circuit laws to these variables: for each edge, the current is equal to change in voltage divided by the resistance. The net current through each edge is zero (if you take current flowing in to be positive and current flowing out to be negative, that is). You'll then get a bunch of equations, and solving them will give the effective resistances.
It's probably best to work out what the effective resistances are from basic principles and algebra first, and then try to work through applying Y-Δ to get a sense of how that works.
Also, any symmetry in the diagram should be preserved in the values. The second circuit has left-right symmetries, so the currents should be symmetrical: the two top resistors should have the same currents as each other, the two outsides diagonal resistors should have the same as each other, and the two inside diagonal should have the same as each other. So you can use just four variables to represent the nine different currents.
answered 1 hour ago
AcccumulationAcccumulation
1,866210
1,866210
add a comment |
add a comment |
As Pietro Oliva (is there a way to mention a user?) pointed out, I have to use the Y-Δ transformations to change how the circuit is viewed.
Thanks for the super fast answer!
New contributor
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
add a comment |
As Pietro Oliva (is there a way to mention a user?) pointed out, I have to use the Y-Δ transformations to change how the circuit is viewed.
Thanks for the super fast answer!
New contributor
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
add a comment |
As Pietro Oliva (is there a way to mention a user?) pointed out, I have to use the Y-Δ transformations to change how the circuit is viewed.
Thanks for the super fast answer!
New contributor
As Pietro Oliva (is there a way to mention a user?) pointed out, I have to use the Y-Δ transformations to change how the circuit is viewed.
Thanks for the super fast answer!
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
GroctelGroctel
485
485
New contributor
New contributor
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
add a comment |
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
1
1
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
I doubt that your teacher expects you to know about this obscure transformation. You should be able to solve both problems just by using Kirchoff’s circuit laws.
– G. Smith
2 hours ago
1
1
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
I've only studied Kirchoff's laws for voltage and intensity. How do I apply them in this type of circuit?
– Groctel
2 hours ago
2
2
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
Assign an unknown current ($I_1$, $I_2$, etc.) to each wire. Write down Kirchoff’s equations for each node and each loop. Solve for all the currents.
– G. Smith
1 hour ago
2
2
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful. - From Review
– my2cts
44 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
@Groctel This doesn't appear to add anything to Pietro's answer. Did you mean to include something besides what's in his answer? If not, I think it would be appropriate to delete this.
– David Z♦
32 mins ago
add a comment |
Groctel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Groctel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Groctel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Groctel is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Have you tried redrawing the diagrams? You'd be surprised how helpful it can be to draw them in the way your brain wants to see them :)
– N. Steinle
2 hours ago
Since you've accepted an answer, I'll just leave this comment for completeness: there are no resistor pairs in series or in parallel in either network. This is why students find both networks perplexing at first.
– Hal Hollis
15 mins ago