Pure Functions: Does “No Side Effects” Imply “Always Same Output, Given Same Input”?












8















The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




  1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

  2. Always return the same output, given the same input


If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










share|improve this question





























    8















    The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




    1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

    2. Always return the same output, given the same input


    If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



    I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










    share|improve this question



























      8












      8








      8








      The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




      1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

      2. Always return the same output, given the same input


      If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



      I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?










      share|improve this question
















      The two conditions that define a function as pure are as follows:




      1. No side effects (i.e. only changes to local scope are allowed)

      2. Always return the same output, given the same input


      If the first condition is always true, are there any times the second condition is not true?



      I.e. is it really only necessary with the first condition?







      javascript functional-programming pure-function






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago









      Code-Apprentice

      48k1490178




      48k1490178










      asked 4 hours ago









      MagnusMagnus

      1,40011025




      1,40011025
























          4 Answers
          4






          active

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          11














          Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




          • function a() { return Date.now(); }

          • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

          • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


          • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


          Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






          share|improve this answer

































            3














            It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



            Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



            function addOneAndLog(x) {
            console.log(x);
            return x + 1;
            }


            The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



            A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



            Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



            function addOne(x) {
            return x + 1;
            }


            We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



            By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



            We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






            share|improve this answer
























            • this doesn't address the question

              – Empty
              1 hour ago



















            2














            You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



            All I can think of, anyway.






            share|improve this answer
























            • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

              – Joseph M. Dion
              1 hour ago



















            -2














            I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

              – Code-Apprentice
              2 hours ago











            • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

              – Mark
              1 hour ago











            • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

              – Joseph M. Dion
              1 hour ago











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            4 Answers
            4






            active

            oldest

            votes








            4 Answers
            4






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            11














            Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




            • function a() { return Date.now(); }

            • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

            • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


            • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


            Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






            share|improve this answer






























              11














              Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




              • function a() { return Date.now(); }

              • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

              • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


              • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


              Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






              share|improve this answer




























                11












                11








                11







                Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




                • function a() { return Date.now(); }

                • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

                • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


                • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


                Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.






                share|improve this answer















                Here are a few counterexamples that do not change the outer scope but are still considered impure:




                • function a() { return Date.now(); }

                • function b() { return window.globalMutableVar; }

                • function c() { return prompt("you choose"); }


                • function d() { return Math.random(); } (which admittedly does change the PRNG, but is not considered observable)


                Accessing non-constant non-local variables is enough to be able to violate the second condition, the function doesn't need to have any side effect itself if it is going to be affected by other side effects.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 4 hours ago

























                answered 4 hours ago









                BergiBergi

                375k60566899




                375k60566899

























                    3














                    It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



                    Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



                    function addOneAndLog(x) {
                    console.log(x);
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



                    A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



                    Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



                    function addOne(x) {
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



                    By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



                    We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • this doesn't address the question

                      – Empty
                      1 hour ago
















                    3














                    It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



                    Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



                    function addOneAndLog(x) {
                    console.log(x);
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



                    A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



                    Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



                    function addOne(x) {
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



                    By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



                    We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • this doesn't address the question

                      – Empty
                      1 hour ago














                    3












                    3








                    3







                    It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



                    Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



                    function addOneAndLog(x) {
                    console.log(x);
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



                    A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



                    Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



                    function addOne(x) {
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



                    By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



                    We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.






                    share|improve this answer













                    It seems to me that the second condition you have described is a weaker constraint than the first.



                    Let me give you an example, suppose you have a function to add one that also logs to the console:



                    function addOneAndLog(x) {
                    console.log(x);
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    The second condition you supplied is satisfied: this function always returns the same output when given the same input. It is, however, not a pure function because it includes the side effect of logging to the console.



                    A pure function is, strictly speaking, a function that satisfies the property of referential transparency. That is the property that we can replace a function application with the value it produces without changing the behaviour of the program.



                    Suppose we have a function that simply adds:



                    function addOne(x) {
                    return x + 1;
                    }


                    We can replace addOne(5) with 6 anywhere in our program and nothing will change.



                    By contrast, we cannot replace addOneAndLog(x) with the value 6 anywhere in our program without changing behaviour because the first expression results in something being written to the console whereas the second one does not.



                    We consider any of this extra behaviour that addOneAndLog(x) performs besides returning output as a side-effect.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 3 hours ago









                    TheInnerLightTheInnerLight

                    10.4k11942




                    10.4k11942













                    • this doesn't address the question

                      – Empty
                      1 hour ago



















                    • this doesn't address the question

                      – Empty
                      1 hour ago

















                    this doesn't address the question

                    – Empty
                    1 hour ago





                    this doesn't address the question

                    – Empty
                    1 hour ago











                    2














                    You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



                    All I can think of, anyway.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago
















                    2














                    You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



                    All I can think of, anyway.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago














                    2












                    2








                    2







                    You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



                    All I can think of, anyway.






                    share|improve this answer













                    You could have a source of randomness from outside the system. Say part of your calculation includes the room temperature. Executing the function will yield different results each time (depending on the external random element) but you don't really change the state of your program by executing it.



                    All I can think of, anyway.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 4 hours ago









                    user3340459user3340459

                    7027




                    7027













                    • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago



















                    • According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago

















                    According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                    – Joseph M. Dion
                    1 hour ago





                    According to me, these "randomness from outside the system" are a form of side effect. Functions with these behaviors are not "pures".

                    – Joseph M. Dion
                    1 hour ago











                    -2














                    I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






                    share|improve this answer



















                    • 1





                      That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                      – Code-Apprentice
                      2 hours ago











                    • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                      – Mark
                      1 hour ago











                    • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago
















                    -2














                    I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






                    share|improve this answer



















                    • 1





                      That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                      – Code-Apprentice
                      2 hours ago











                    • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                      – Mark
                      1 hour ago











                    • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago














                    -2












                    -2








                    -2







                    I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.






                    share|improve this answer













                    I would say that the point 2 (Always return the same output, given the same input) is not a condition but a consequence of point 1 : a function without side effects will always return the same output given the same input.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 2 hours ago









                    Joseph M. DionJoseph M. Dion

                    1724




                    1724








                    • 1





                      That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                      – Code-Apprentice
                      2 hours ago











                    • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                      – Mark
                      1 hour ago











                    • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago














                    • 1





                      That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                      – Code-Apprentice
                      2 hours ago











                    • It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                      – Mark
                      1 hour ago











                    • According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                      – Joseph M. Dion
                      1 hour ago








                    1




                    1





                    That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                    – Code-Apprentice
                    2 hours ago





                    That is the whole point of the question. The OP is asking why is it necessary to list both when it seems that one is a consequence of the other. However, the examples above show some good counter examples.

                    – Code-Apprentice
                    2 hours ago













                    It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                    – Mark
                    1 hour ago





                    It's possible to have a function with side effects but always returning the same output for an input (console.log(x);return x), and it's possible to have a function with no side effects that returns different values for a given input (return Date.now() + x). The two conditions are independent.

                    – Mark
                    1 hour ago













                    According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                    – Joseph M. Dion
                    1 hour ago





                    According to me, the function (return Date.now() + x) is a fonction WITH side effect because it reads something from the outside world (the time).

                    – Joseph M. Dion
                    1 hour ago


















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