When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?












5














Whenever we discuss the key of a piece, we usually describe it as either a major or minor key. And then, based on the intervals of the major or minor scale and the root note we define, we can construct the sharps and flats of that key.



When we play a mode of a major or minor scale, for example the mixolydian mode of the major scale, what key are we in?



Consider the mixolydian mode of the C major scale.
C D E F G A Bb C



If we played a song in this scale, the song would have the same key signature as the F minor scale, (though it would have C as the tonic).



So what key are we in if we play C mixolydian? Are we now in F minor?



If I were to rephrase this question more broadly, it would be this:



If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?










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  • 5




    I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
    – No'am Newman
    9 hours ago






  • 5




    As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
    – Javier
    7 hours ago










  • @Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
    – topo morto
    42 mins ago


















5














Whenever we discuss the key of a piece, we usually describe it as either a major or minor key. And then, based on the intervals of the major or minor scale and the root note we define, we can construct the sharps and flats of that key.



When we play a mode of a major or minor scale, for example the mixolydian mode of the major scale, what key are we in?



Consider the mixolydian mode of the C major scale.
C D E F G A Bb C



If we played a song in this scale, the song would have the same key signature as the F minor scale, (though it would have C as the tonic).



So what key are we in if we play C mixolydian? Are we now in F minor?



If I were to rephrase this question more broadly, it would be this:



If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Alan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 5




    I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
    – No'am Newman
    9 hours ago






  • 5




    As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
    – Javier
    7 hours ago










  • @Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
    – topo morto
    42 mins ago
















5












5








5


2





Whenever we discuss the key of a piece, we usually describe it as either a major or minor key. And then, based on the intervals of the major or minor scale and the root note we define, we can construct the sharps and flats of that key.



When we play a mode of a major or minor scale, for example the mixolydian mode of the major scale, what key are we in?



Consider the mixolydian mode of the C major scale.
C D E F G A Bb C



If we played a song in this scale, the song would have the same key signature as the F minor scale, (though it would have C as the tonic).



So what key are we in if we play C mixolydian? Are we now in F minor?



If I were to rephrase this question more broadly, it would be this:



If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Alan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Whenever we discuss the key of a piece, we usually describe it as either a major or minor key. And then, based on the intervals of the major or minor scale and the root note we define, we can construct the sharps and flats of that key.



When we play a mode of a major or minor scale, for example the mixolydian mode of the major scale, what key are we in?



Consider the mixolydian mode of the C major scale.
C D E F G A Bb C



If we played a song in this scale, the song would have the same key signature as the F minor scale, (though it would have C as the tonic).



So what key are we in if we play C mixolydian? Are we now in F minor?



If I were to rephrase this question more broadly, it would be this:



If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?







theory scales key






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asked 9 hours ago









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  • 5




    I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
    – No'am Newman
    9 hours ago






  • 5




    As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
    – Javier
    7 hours ago










  • @Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
    – topo morto
    42 mins ago
















  • 5




    I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
    – No'am Newman
    9 hours ago






  • 5




    As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
    – Javier
    7 hours ago










  • @Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
    – topo morto
    42 mins ago










5




5




I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
– No'am Newman
9 hours ago




I think you mean F major, not F minor. The former has one flat, the latter four.
– No'am Newman
9 hours ago




5




5




As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
– Javier
7 hours ago




As a practical matter, in rock/blues and similar genres, skirting the line between major, minor and myxolidian is so common that if you just say "C" people won't be surprised if they see a Bb somewhere.
– Javier
7 hours ago












@Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
– topo morto
42 mins ago






@Javier very true if people are familiar with those genres, though I have seen people unfamiliar with the quirks of blues/rock tonality get confused by unexpected notes when reading from a score...
– topo morto
42 mins ago












6 Answers
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It would be F major rather than F minor, as there's an A in C Mixolydian, not A♭.



The reason for mentioning any letter name is to tell what the root, or 'home' is.



So, in, say, C Mixolydian, that's what we're in. The root is C, but the notes are not from C major, or C minor (any of them!) but C Mixolydian.



It just happens that diatonically, all those notes (C D E F G A Bb) are also those from F major. There's only one key sig. for each major key, and they're usually stated at the beginning of each line to remind us of what they are, to save using accidentals instead. They also tell us , indirectly, what the key is likely to be. Although with just the Bb, it may not be F major, it could be D minor - or even C Mixolydian!



Scales and keys are directly related, but not synonymous. We are aware of this when considering the minor key and scales associated. In say C minor, with its 3♭ key sig., there are the notes C D E♭ F G A♭ A♮ B♭ B♮ that can and are all used - they do not make up a single minor scale. They're an amalgam of several different minor scales - all belonging to the key C minor.



So, back to the question. Using the notes of C Mixolydian - we are in C Mixolydian, but a preferable key sig. would be one flat for the written piece; we're not really in F. (and certainly not F minor!!). It could also be said that we're in the Mixolydian mode of F, just to confuse some! And - the defining feature of major keys is the major third, leaving that of minor keys containing a minor third - both from the root note, of course.






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    7














    'The Mixolydian mode of the scale of C' starts on G. 'C Mixolydian' starts on C, and is a mode of the scale of F.



    There is a connection between C Mixolydian and F major. (A pretty strong connection - they use the same notes!) But if we are 'in F major', F is the root. In C Mixoldian C is the root. We've left the world of 'keys'.



    In real-world music, it's often very fluid. b7 notes (and bVII chords) co-exist with nat7 notes (and V chords). Is a 'Blues in C' in C Mixolydian (because of the C7), or C major (because of the G7)? Or something else (because of the F7)? Surely it doesn't keep switching key/mode? :-) Probably better to let it be in C major, with some non-diatonic notes.






    share|improve this answer































      5














      If a piece is squarely in C mixolydian, the most precise thing you can say is that it's in C mixolydian. If speaking casually, you can say that it's 'in C' as long as the person listening to you is going to interpret that as "the root note of the piece is C", and not "the piece is C major" - because a piece in C mixolydian is not "in C major".



      When it comes to what key signature you should use to write a piece in C mixolydian, you will find differing opinions as to what's clearer. Some would suggest using a key signature with one flat, and marking the score "C mixolydian". Others would suggest simply marking each B flat with accidentals.




      If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?




      Tonalities of songs are not only defined in terms of the major and minor scales; I would simply suggest avoiding using the word 'key' where it may lead to confusion. The major/minor key system can often only be an approximation, and restricting yourself to speaking only in terms of the major/minor key system may cause you to lose information about the music you are discussing.






      share|improve this answer































        2














        A key signature defines two things: what modifications should be made to notes by default, and a direction as to what key the music is in. Basically, the choice for what key signature you use is simply a balancing act between those two factors.



        Let me give some examples:





        • C Minor, with 3 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab). The choice is between writing it with no flats/sharps in the key signature, and writing the
          accidental for every single 3rd/6th/7th. On one hand, the signature
          makes it clear its in C... but on the other hand, you're having to
          accidental a whole lot of notes. It's clear that the second factor
          is a lot more of a hindrance than the first. So, instead, C minor is
          commonly written with 3 flats in the key - and it's up to the person
          reading the music to understand/grasp that the three flats don't
          signify that the music is in Eb major. It's a downside (which
          musicians have to mentally account for)... but the downside is more
          than outweighed by not having to have every other note accidental'ed.


        • C Mixolydian, with 1 flat (Bb). Now the choice is: do I add a Bb to the key signature? Adding the Bb makes it appear that the song's
          key is actually F. But the upside is that I don't have to accidental
          every B in the score. In that case... the first factor almost
          certainly outweighs the second: nobody would bat an eye at seeing all
          the B's flatted, but it might cause confusion when the base of the
          music wasn't an F. (As a former jazz musician, I can definitely say
          that I would much rather read a flatted seventh accidental than
          getting confused as to the chord structure or key for a song.)


        As a general rule of thumb, you should probably score the music with a key of either a major or minor key - not because you can't do something else, but because the confusion of a base/key will probably outweigh having to parse accidentals more than usual.






        share|improve this answer





















        • I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
          – Tim
          2 hours ago





















        1















        When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?




        Maybe. Maybe not.



        The problem with the question is thinking a collection of tones C D E F G A Bb C is the only thing needed to answer the question.



        In a very simplistic way you can say this collection of tones fits the key signatures F major and D minor.



        Of course it would also fit 1 of 7 possible modes - C mixolydian, D aeolian, E locrian... etc.



        Tonality is fluid so you could also say those tones match C major with a temporary tonicization of the subdominant. In fact analysis discussion can reflect that. People may refer to things like "Phrygian flavor in minor" regarding a N6 chord or "subdominant inflection" when a lowered seventh in used in a major key without necessarily identifying a key change.




        ...how do we define our key...




        You need to identify the tonic before you can answer the question.



        Also, listing the notes in alphabetic order starting on C doesn't answer the question. That scale fits nicely over chords like Dm7, C, C7, F, etc.






        share|improve this answer





























          0














          Yes.



          If you are using borrowed chords or modal interchange, and C is the tonal center, then yes, the key is still C. If you are strictly using C Mixolydian, but it still resolves to C, then it is a modal song or modal music, like a Gregorian Chant and the key is C Mixolydian. Even though the notes are the same as F major, it is not F major if the song resolves to C.





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            It would be F major rather than F minor, as there's an A in C Mixolydian, not A♭.



            The reason for mentioning any letter name is to tell what the root, or 'home' is.



            So, in, say, C Mixolydian, that's what we're in. The root is C, but the notes are not from C major, or C minor (any of them!) but C Mixolydian.



            It just happens that diatonically, all those notes (C D E F G A Bb) are also those from F major. There's only one key sig. for each major key, and they're usually stated at the beginning of each line to remind us of what they are, to save using accidentals instead. They also tell us , indirectly, what the key is likely to be. Although with just the Bb, it may not be F major, it could be D minor - or even C Mixolydian!



            Scales and keys are directly related, but not synonymous. We are aware of this when considering the minor key and scales associated. In say C minor, with its 3♭ key sig., there are the notes C D E♭ F G A♭ A♮ B♭ B♮ that can and are all used - they do not make up a single minor scale. They're an amalgam of several different minor scales - all belonging to the key C minor.



            So, back to the question. Using the notes of C Mixolydian - we are in C Mixolydian, but a preferable key sig. would be one flat for the written piece; we're not really in F. (and certainly not F minor!!). It could also be said that we're in the Mixolydian mode of F, just to confuse some! And - the defining feature of major keys is the major third, leaving that of minor keys containing a minor third - both from the root note, of course.






            share|improve this answer




























              9














              It would be F major rather than F minor, as there's an A in C Mixolydian, not A♭.



              The reason for mentioning any letter name is to tell what the root, or 'home' is.



              So, in, say, C Mixolydian, that's what we're in. The root is C, but the notes are not from C major, or C minor (any of them!) but C Mixolydian.



              It just happens that diatonically, all those notes (C D E F G A Bb) are also those from F major. There's only one key sig. for each major key, and they're usually stated at the beginning of each line to remind us of what they are, to save using accidentals instead. They also tell us , indirectly, what the key is likely to be. Although with just the Bb, it may not be F major, it could be D minor - or even C Mixolydian!



              Scales and keys are directly related, but not synonymous. We are aware of this when considering the minor key and scales associated. In say C minor, with its 3♭ key sig., there are the notes C D E♭ F G A♭ A♮ B♭ B♮ that can and are all used - they do not make up a single minor scale. They're an amalgam of several different minor scales - all belonging to the key C minor.



              So, back to the question. Using the notes of C Mixolydian - we are in C Mixolydian, but a preferable key sig. would be one flat for the written piece; we're not really in F. (and certainly not F minor!!). It could also be said that we're in the Mixolydian mode of F, just to confuse some! And - the defining feature of major keys is the major third, leaving that of minor keys containing a minor third - both from the root note, of course.






              share|improve this answer


























                9












                9








                9






                It would be F major rather than F minor, as there's an A in C Mixolydian, not A♭.



                The reason for mentioning any letter name is to tell what the root, or 'home' is.



                So, in, say, C Mixolydian, that's what we're in. The root is C, but the notes are not from C major, or C minor (any of them!) but C Mixolydian.



                It just happens that diatonically, all those notes (C D E F G A Bb) are also those from F major. There's only one key sig. for each major key, and they're usually stated at the beginning of each line to remind us of what they are, to save using accidentals instead. They also tell us , indirectly, what the key is likely to be. Although with just the Bb, it may not be F major, it could be D minor - or even C Mixolydian!



                Scales and keys are directly related, but not synonymous. We are aware of this when considering the minor key and scales associated. In say C minor, with its 3♭ key sig., there are the notes C D E♭ F G A♭ A♮ B♭ B♮ that can and are all used - they do not make up a single minor scale. They're an amalgam of several different minor scales - all belonging to the key C minor.



                So, back to the question. Using the notes of C Mixolydian - we are in C Mixolydian, but a preferable key sig. would be one flat for the written piece; we're not really in F. (and certainly not F minor!!). It could also be said that we're in the Mixolydian mode of F, just to confuse some! And - the defining feature of major keys is the major third, leaving that of minor keys containing a minor third - both from the root note, of course.






                share|improve this answer














                It would be F major rather than F minor, as there's an A in C Mixolydian, not A♭.



                The reason for mentioning any letter name is to tell what the root, or 'home' is.



                So, in, say, C Mixolydian, that's what we're in. The root is C, but the notes are not from C major, or C minor (any of them!) but C Mixolydian.



                It just happens that diatonically, all those notes (C D E F G A Bb) are also those from F major. There's only one key sig. for each major key, and they're usually stated at the beginning of each line to remind us of what they are, to save using accidentals instead. They also tell us , indirectly, what the key is likely to be. Although with just the Bb, it may not be F major, it could be D minor - or even C Mixolydian!



                Scales and keys are directly related, but not synonymous. We are aware of this when considering the minor key and scales associated. In say C minor, with its 3♭ key sig., there are the notes C D E♭ F G A♭ A♮ B♭ B♮ that can and are all used - they do not make up a single minor scale. They're an amalgam of several different minor scales - all belonging to the key C minor.



                So, back to the question. Using the notes of C Mixolydian - we are in C Mixolydian, but a preferable key sig. would be one flat for the written piece; we're not really in F. (and certainly not F minor!!). It could also be said that we're in the Mixolydian mode of F, just to confuse some! And - the defining feature of major keys is the major third, leaving that of minor keys containing a minor third - both from the root note, of course.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 8 hours ago

























                answered 9 hours ago









                Tim

                96.2k1099244




                96.2k1099244























                    7














                    'The Mixolydian mode of the scale of C' starts on G. 'C Mixolydian' starts on C, and is a mode of the scale of F.



                    There is a connection between C Mixolydian and F major. (A pretty strong connection - they use the same notes!) But if we are 'in F major', F is the root. In C Mixoldian C is the root. We've left the world of 'keys'.



                    In real-world music, it's often very fluid. b7 notes (and bVII chords) co-exist with nat7 notes (and V chords). Is a 'Blues in C' in C Mixolydian (because of the C7), or C major (because of the G7)? Or something else (because of the F7)? Surely it doesn't keep switching key/mode? :-) Probably better to let it be in C major, with some non-diatonic notes.






                    share|improve this answer




























                      7














                      'The Mixolydian mode of the scale of C' starts on G. 'C Mixolydian' starts on C, and is a mode of the scale of F.



                      There is a connection between C Mixolydian and F major. (A pretty strong connection - they use the same notes!) But if we are 'in F major', F is the root. In C Mixoldian C is the root. We've left the world of 'keys'.



                      In real-world music, it's often very fluid. b7 notes (and bVII chords) co-exist with nat7 notes (and V chords). Is a 'Blues in C' in C Mixolydian (because of the C7), or C major (because of the G7)? Or something else (because of the F7)? Surely it doesn't keep switching key/mode? :-) Probably better to let it be in C major, with some non-diatonic notes.






                      share|improve this answer


























                        7












                        7








                        7






                        'The Mixolydian mode of the scale of C' starts on G. 'C Mixolydian' starts on C, and is a mode of the scale of F.



                        There is a connection between C Mixolydian and F major. (A pretty strong connection - they use the same notes!) But if we are 'in F major', F is the root. In C Mixoldian C is the root. We've left the world of 'keys'.



                        In real-world music, it's often very fluid. b7 notes (and bVII chords) co-exist with nat7 notes (and V chords). Is a 'Blues in C' in C Mixolydian (because of the C7), or C major (because of the G7)? Or something else (because of the F7)? Surely it doesn't keep switching key/mode? :-) Probably better to let it be in C major, with some non-diatonic notes.






                        share|improve this answer














                        'The Mixolydian mode of the scale of C' starts on G. 'C Mixolydian' starts on C, and is a mode of the scale of F.



                        There is a connection between C Mixolydian and F major. (A pretty strong connection - they use the same notes!) But if we are 'in F major', F is the root. In C Mixoldian C is the root. We've left the world of 'keys'.



                        In real-world music, it's often very fluid. b7 notes (and bVII chords) co-exist with nat7 notes (and V chords). Is a 'Blues in C' in C Mixolydian (because of the C7), or C major (because of the G7)? Or something else (because of the F7)? Surely it doesn't keep switching key/mode? :-) Probably better to let it be in C major, with some non-diatonic notes.







                        share|improve this answer














                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer








                        edited 8 hours ago

























                        answered 8 hours ago









                        Laurence Payne

                        32k1559




                        32k1559























                            5














                            If a piece is squarely in C mixolydian, the most precise thing you can say is that it's in C mixolydian. If speaking casually, you can say that it's 'in C' as long as the person listening to you is going to interpret that as "the root note of the piece is C", and not "the piece is C major" - because a piece in C mixolydian is not "in C major".



                            When it comes to what key signature you should use to write a piece in C mixolydian, you will find differing opinions as to what's clearer. Some would suggest using a key signature with one flat, and marking the score "C mixolydian". Others would suggest simply marking each B flat with accidentals.




                            If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?




                            Tonalities of songs are not only defined in terms of the major and minor scales; I would simply suggest avoiding using the word 'key' where it may lead to confusion. The major/minor key system can often only be an approximation, and restricting yourself to speaking only in terms of the major/minor key system may cause you to lose information about the music you are discussing.






                            share|improve this answer




























                              5














                              If a piece is squarely in C mixolydian, the most precise thing you can say is that it's in C mixolydian. If speaking casually, you can say that it's 'in C' as long as the person listening to you is going to interpret that as "the root note of the piece is C", and not "the piece is C major" - because a piece in C mixolydian is not "in C major".



                              When it comes to what key signature you should use to write a piece in C mixolydian, you will find differing opinions as to what's clearer. Some would suggest using a key signature with one flat, and marking the score "C mixolydian". Others would suggest simply marking each B flat with accidentals.




                              If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?




                              Tonalities of songs are not only defined in terms of the major and minor scales; I would simply suggest avoiding using the word 'key' where it may lead to confusion. The major/minor key system can often only be an approximation, and restricting yourself to speaking only in terms of the major/minor key system may cause you to lose information about the music you are discussing.






                              share|improve this answer


























                                5












                                5








                                5






                                If a piece is squarely in C mixolydian, the most precise thing you can say is that it's in C mixolydian. If speaking casually, you can say that it's 'in C' as long as the person listening to you is going to interpret that as "the root note of the piece is C", and not "the piece is C major" - because a piece in C mixolydian is not "in C major".



                                When it comes to what key signature you should use to write a piece in C mixolydian, you will find differing opinions as to what's clearer. Some would suggest using a key signature with one flat, and marking the score "C mixolydian". Others would suggest simply marking each B flat with accidentals.




                                If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?




                                Tonalities of songs are not only defined in terms of the major and minor scales; I would simply suggest avoiding using the word 'key' where it may lead to confusion. The major/minor key system can often only be an approximation, and restricting yourself to speaking only in terms of the major/minor key system may cause you to lose information about the music you are discussing.






                                share|improve this answer














                                If a piece is squarely in C mixolydian, the most precise thing you can say is that it's in C mixolydian. If speaking casually, you can say that it's 'in C' as long as the person listening to you is going to interpret that as "the root note of the piece is C", and not "the piece is C major" - because a piece in C mixolydian is not "in C major".



                                When it comes to what key signature you should use to write a piece in C mixolydian, you will find differing opinions as to what's clearer. Some would suggest using a key signature with one flat, and marking the score "C mixolydian". Others would suggest simply marking each B flat with accidentals.




                                If keys of songs defined in terms of the major and minor scales, how do we define our key when we play scales other than the major and minor scales?




                                Tonalities of songs are not only defined in terms of the major and minor scales; I would simply suggest avoiding using the word 'key' where it may lead to confusion. The major/minor key system can often only be an approximation, and restricting yourself to speaking only in terms of the major/minor key system may cause you to lose information about the music you are discussing.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited 54 mins ago

























                                answered 9 hours ago









                                topo morto

                                23.2k24099




                                23.2k24099























                                    2














                                    A key signature defines two things: what modifications should be made to notes by default, and a direction as to what key the music is in. Basically, the choice for what key signature you use is simply a balancing act between those two factors.



                                    Let me give some examples:





                                    • C Minor, with 3 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab). The choice is between writing it with no flats/sharps in the key signature, and writing the
                                      accidental for every single 3rd/6th/7th. On one hand, the signature
                                      makes it clear its in C... but on the other hand, you're having to
                                      accidental a whole lot of notes. It's clear that the second factor
                                      is a lot more of a hindrance than the first. So, instead, C minor is
                                      commonly written with 3 flats in the key - and it's up to the person
                                      reading the music to understand/grasp that the three flats don't
                                      signify that the music is in Eb major. It's a downside (which
                                      musicians have to mentally account for)... but the downside is more
                                      than outweighed by not having to have every other note accidental'ed.


                                    • C Mixolydian, with 1 flat (Bb). Now the choice is: do I add a Bb to the key signature? Adding the Bb makes it appear that the song's
                                      key is actually F. But the upside is that I don't have to accidental
                                      every B in the score. In that case... the first factor almost
                                      certainly outweighs the second: nobody would bat an eye at seeing all
                                      the B's flatted, but it might cause confusion when the base of the
                                      music wasn't an F. (As a former jazz musician, I can definitely say
                                      that I would much rather read a flatted seventh accidental than
                                      getting confused as to the chord structure or key for a song.)


                                    As a general rule of thumb, you should probably score the music with a key of either a major or minor key - not because you can't do something else, but because the confusion of a base/key will probably outweigh having to parse accidentals more than usual.






                                    share|improve this answer





















                                    • I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                      – Tim
                                      2 hours ago


















                                    2














                                    A key signature defines two things: what modifications should be made to notes by default, and a direction as to what key the music is in. Basically, the choice for what key signature you use is simply a balancing act between those two factors.



                                    Let me give some examples:





                                    • C Minor, with 3 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab). The choice is between writing it with no flats/sharps in the key signature, and writing the
                                      accidental for every single 3rd/6th/7th. On one hand, the signature
                                      makes it clear its in C... but on the other hand, you're having to
                                      accidental a whole lot of notes. It's clear that the second factor
                                      is a lot more of a hindrance than the first. So, instead, C minor is
                                      commonly written with 3 flats in the key - and it's up to the person
                                      reading the music to understand/grasp that the three flats don't
                                      signify that the music is in Eb major. It's a downside (which
                                      musicians have to mentally account for)... but the downside is more
                                      than outweighed by not having to have every other note accidental'ed.


                                    • C Mixolydian, with 1 flat (Bb). Now the choice is: do I add a Bb to the key signature? Adding the Bb makes it appear that the song's
                                      key is actually F. But the upside is that I don't have to accidental
                                      every B in the score. In that case... the first factor almost
                                      certainly outweighs the second: nobody would bat an eye at seeing all
                                      the B's flatted, but it might cause confusion when the base of the
                                      music wasn't an F. (As a former jazz musician, I can definitely say
                                      that I would much rather read a flatted seventh accidental than
                                      getting confused as to the chord structure or key for a song.)


                                    As a general rule of thumb, you should probably score the music with a key of either a major or minor key - not because you can't do something else, but because the confusion of a base/key will probably outweigh having to parse accidentals more than usual.






                                    share|improve this answer





















                                    • I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                      – Tim
                                      2 hours ago
















                                    2












                                    2








                                    2






                                    A key signature defines two things: what modifications should be made to notes by default, and a direction as to what key the music is in. Basically, the choice for what key signature you use is simply a balancing act between those two factors.



                                    Let me give some examples:





                                    • C Minor, with 3 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab). The choice is between writing it with no flats/sharps in the key signature, and writing the
                                      accidental for every single 3rd/6th/7th. On one hand, the signature
                                      makes it clear its in C... but on the other hand, you're having to
                                      accidental a whole lot of notes. It's clear that the second factor
                                      is a lot more of a hindrance than the first. So, instead, C minor is
                                      commonly written with 3 flats in the key - and it's up to the person
                                      reading the music to understand/grasp that the three flats don't
                                      signify that the music is in Eb major. It's a downside (which
                                      musicians have to mentally account for)... but the downside is more
                                      than outweighed by not having to have every other note accidental'ed.


                                    • C Mixolydian, with 1 flat (Bb). Now the choice is: do I add a Bb to the key signature? Adding the Bb makes it appear that the song's
                                      key is actually F. But the upside is that I don't have to accidental
                                      every B in the score. In that case... the first factor almost
                                      certainly outweighs the second: nobody would bat an eye at seeing all
                                      the B's flatted, but it might cause confusion when the base of the
                                      music wasn't an F. (As a former jazz musician, I can definitely say
                                      that I would much rather read a flatted seventh accidental than
                                      getting confused as to the chord structure or key for a song.)


                                    As a general rule of thumb, you should probably score the music with a key of either a major or minor key - not because you can't do something else, but because the confusion of a base/key will probably outweigh having to parse accidentals more than usual.






                                    share|improve this answer












                                    A key signature defines two things: what modifications should be made to notes by default, and a direction as to what key the music is in. Basically, the choice for what key signature you use is simply a balancing act between those two factors.



                                    Let me give some examples:





                                    • C Minor, with 3 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab). The choice is between writing it with no flats/sharps in the key signature, and writing the
                                      accidental for every single 3rd/6th/7th. On one hand, the signature
                                      makes it clear its in C... but on the other hand, you're having to
                                      accidental a whole lot of notes. It's clear that the second factor
                                      is a lot more of a hindrance than the first. So, instead, C minor is
                                      commonly written with 3 flats in the key - and it's up to the person
                                      reading the music to understand/grasp that the three flats don't
                                      signify that the music is in Eb major. It's a downside (which
                                      musicians have to mentally account for)... but the downside is more
                                      than outweighed by not having to have every other note accidental'ed.


                                    • C Mixolydian, with 1 flat (Bb). Now the choice is: do I add a Bb to the key signature? Adding the Bb makes it appear that the song's
                                      key is actually F. But the upside is that I don't have to accidental
                                      every B in the score. In that case... the first factor almost
                                      certainly outweighs the second: nobody would bat an eye at seeing all
                                      the B's flatted, but it might cause confusion when the base of the
                                      music wasn't an F. (As a former jazz musician, I can definitely say
                                      that I would much rather read a flatted seventh accidental than
                                      getting confused as to the chord structure or key for a song.)


                                    As a general rule of thumb, you should probably score the music with a key of either a major or minor key - not because you can't do something else, but because the confusion of a base/key will probably outweigh having to parse accidentals more than usual.







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered 5 hours ago









                                    Kevin

                                    2013




                                    2013












                                    • I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                      – Tim
                                      2 hours ago




















                                    • I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                      – Tim
                                      2 hours ago


















                                    I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                    – Tim
                                    2 hours ago






                                    I think seeing one flat as key sig., but then expecting first that it's in F, second it's in Dm (usually with C#,), and third, it's neither, would spur me on to modes, and it's not too difficult to determine from there. Proper sightreaders would simply play what's written and take no notice, so there's no dire problem in that.
                                    – Tim
                                    2 hours ago













                                    1















                                    When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?




                                    Maybe. Maybe not.



                                    The problem with the question is thinking a collection of tones C D E F G A Bb C is the only thing needed to answer the question.



                                    In a very simplistic way you can say this collection of tones fits the key signatures F major and D minor.



                                    Of course it would also fit 1 of 7 possible modes - C mixolydian, D aeolian, E locrian... etc.



                                    Tonality is fluid so you could also say those tones match C major with a temporary tonicization of the subdominant. In fact analysis discussion can reflect that. People may refer to things like "Phrygian flavor in minor" regarding a N6 chord or "subdominant inflection" when a lowered seventh in used in a major key without necessarily identifying a key change.




                                    ...how do we define our key...




                                    You need to identify the tonic before you can answer the question.



                                    Also, listing the notes in alphabetic order starting on C doesn't answer the question. That scale fits nicely over chords like Dm7, C, C7, F, etc.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      1















                                      When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?




                                      Maybe. Maybe not.



                                      The problem with the question is thinking a collection of tones C D E F G A Bb C is the only thing needed to answer the question.



                                      In a very simplistic way you can say this collection of tones fits the key signatures F major and D minor.



                                      Of course it would also fit 1 of 7 possible modes - C mixolydian, D aeolian, E locrian... etc.



                                      Tonality is fluid so you could also say those tones match C major with a temporary tonicization of the subdominant. In fact analysis discussion can reflect that. People may refer to things like "Phrygian flavor in minor" regarding a N6 chord or "subdominant inflection" when a lowered seventh in used in a major key without necessarily identifying a key change.




                                      ...how do we define our key...




                                      You need to identify the tonic before you can answer the question.



                                      Also, listing the notes in alphabetic order starting on C doesn't answer the question. That scale fits nicely over chords like Dm7, C, C7, F, etc.






                                      share|improve this answer
























                                        1












                                        1








                                        1







                                        When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?




                                        Maybe. Maybe not.



                                        The problem with the question is thinking a collection of tones C D E F G A Bb C is the only thing needed to answer the question.



                                        In a very simplistic way you can say this collection of tones fits the key signatures F major and D minor.



                                        Of course it would also fit 1 of 7 possible modes - C mixolydian, D aeolian, E locrian... etc.



                                        Tonality is fluid so you could also say those tones match C major with a temporary tonicization of the subdominant. In fact analysis discussion can reflect that. People may refer to things like "Phrygian flavor in minor" regarding a N6 chord or "subdominant inflection" when a lowered seventh in used in a major key without necessarily identifying a key change.




                                        ...how do we define our key...




                                        You need to identify the tonic before you can answer the question.



                                        Also, listing the notes in alphabetic order starting on C doesn't answer the question. That scale fits nicely over chords like Dm7, C, C7, F, etc.






                                        share|improve this answer













                                        When we play the C mixolydian mode, are we still in the key of C?




                                        Maybe. Maybe not.



                                        The problem with the question is thinking a collection of tones C D E F G A Bb C is the only thing needed to answer the question.



                                        In a very simplistic way you can say this collection of tones fits the key signatures F major and D minor.



                                        Of course it would also fit 1 of 7 possible modes - C mixolydian, D aeolian, E locrian... etc.



                                        Tonality is fluid so you could also say those tones match C major with a temporary tonicization of the subdominant. In fact analysis discussion can reflect that. People may refer to things like "Phrygian flavor in minor" regarding a N6 chord or "subdominant inflection" when a lowered seventh in used in a major key without necessarily identifying a key change.




                                        ...how do we define our key...




                                        You need to identify the tonic before you can answer the question.



                                        Also, listing the notes in alphabetic order starting on C doesn't answer the question. That scale fits nicely over chords like Dm7, C, C7, F, etc.







                                        share|improve this answer












                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer










                                        answered 4 hours ago









                                        Michael Curtis

                                        5,875326




                                        5,875326























                                            0














                                            Yes.



                                            If you are using borrowed chords or modal interchange, and C is the tonal center, then yes, the key is still C. If you are strictly using C Mixolydian, but it still resolves to C, then it is a modal song or modal music, like a Gregorian Chant and the key is C Mixolydian. Even though the notes are the same as F major, it is not F major if the song resolves to C.





                                            share


























                                              0














                                              Yes.



                                              If you are using borrowed chords or modal interchange, and C is the tonal center, then yes, the key is still C. If you are strictly using C Mixolydian, but it still resolves to C, then it is a modal song or modal music, like a Gregorian Chant and the key is C Mixolydian. Even though the notes are the same as F major, it is not F major if the song resolves to C.





                                              share
























                                                0












                                                0








                                                0






                                                Yes.



                                                If you are using borrowed chords or modal interchange, and C is the tonal center, then yes, the key is still C. If you are strictly using C Mixolydian, but it still resolves to C, then it is a modal song or modal music, like a Gregorian Chant and the key is C Mixolydian. Even though the notes are the same as F major, it is not F major if the song resolves to C.





                                                share












                                                Yes.



                                                If you are using borrowed chords or modal interchange, and C is the tonal center, then yes, the key is still C. If you are strictly using C Mixolydian, but it still resolves to C, then it is a modal song or modal music, like a Gregorian Chant and the key is C Mixolydian. Even though the notes are the same as F major, it is not F major if the song resolves to C.






                                                share











                                                share


                                                share










                                                answered 7 mins ago









                                                Wyrmwood

                                                1333




                                                1333






















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