What happens if I try to grapple an illusory duplicate from the Mirror Image spell?
$begingroup$
A grapple attempt is an attack - a special melee attack:
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Because it's an attack, it can target an illusory duplicate from the mirror image spell:
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell's duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
What will happen if the grapple attempt targets a duplicate? Will it automatically be destroyed if I win the contest? What will happen if I lose the contest?
dnd-5e spells grapple illusion
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A grapple attempt is an attack - a special melee attack:
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Because it's an attack, it can target an illusory duplicate from the mirror image spell:
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell's duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
What will happen if the grapple attempt targets a duplicate? Will it automatically be destroyed if I win the contest? What will happen if I lose the contest?
dnd-5e spells grapple illusion
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A grapple attempt is an attack - a special melee attack:
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Because it's an attack, it can target an illusory duplicate from the mirror image spell:
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell's duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
What will happen if the grapple attempt targets a duplicate? Will it automatically be destroyed if I win the contest? What will happen if I lose the contest?
dnd-5e spells grapple illusion
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
$endgroup$
A grapple attempt is an attack - a special melee attack:
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Because it's an attack, it can target an illusory duplicate from the mirror image spell:
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell's duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
What will happen if the grapple attempt targets a duplicate? Will it automatically be destroyed if I win the contest? What will happen if I lose the contest?
dnd-5e spells grapple illusion
dnd-5e spells grapple illusion
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
25k483155
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
asked 13 hours ago
VylixVylix
13.6k255157
13.6k255157
$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Nothing happens to the image. The grapple attempt just fails.
The pertinent mirror image rules:
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack
hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be
destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage
and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
And the grappling rules:
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than
you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you
try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack
roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength
(Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the
ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the
grappled condition.
The grapple is an attack (specifically a "special melee attack") but not one that can hit. As such, it would have no effect on the mirror image - subjecting it to the Grappled condition does nothing.
That's further supported by the fact that you cannot either win or lose this contest, as the mirror image does not have a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to contest against. By design, the only way to hit (and therefore dispel) the mirror image is to target AC.
For clarity, the chain of events would be as follows: You attempt to target the wizard with a grapple. The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead. The mirror image is unaffected by grapple, and therefore the grapple attempt autofails.
Further support for this position available in the answers to this question here.
Even more support can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium (page 11, right-hand colum)
Does a grapple or a shove trigger the Tempest cleric’s Wrath of the
Storm or a Battle Master’s Riposte? The answer to both questions is
no. The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit
or a miss.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Your Answer
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
Nothing happens to the image. The grapple attempt just fails.
The pertinent mirror image rules:
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack
hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be
destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage
and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
And the grappling rules:
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than
you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you
try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack
roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength
(Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the
ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the
grappled condition.
The grapple is an attack (specifically a "special melee attack") but not one that can hit. As such, it would have no effect on the mirror image - subjecting it to the Grappled condition does nothing.
That's further supported by the fact that you cannot either win or lose this contest, as the mirror image does not have a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to contest against. By design, the only way to hit (and therefore dispel) the mirror image is to target AC.
For clarity, the chain of events would be as follows: You attempt to target the wizard with a grapple. The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead. The mirror image is unaffected by grapple, and therefore the grapple attempt autofails.
Further support for this position available in the answers to this question here.
Even more support can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium (page 11, right-hand colum)
Does a grapple or a shove trigger the Tempest cleric’s Wrath of the
Storm or a Battle Master’s Riposte? The answer to both questions is
no. The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit
or a miss.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Nothing happens to the image. The grapple attempt just fails.
The pertinent mirror image rules:
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack
hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be
destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage
and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
And the grappling rules:
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than
you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you
try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack
roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength
(Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the
ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the
grappled condition.
The grapple is an attack (specifically a "special melee attack") but not one that can hit. As such, it would have no effect on the mirror image - subjecting it to the Grappled condition does nothing.
That's further supported by the fact that you cannot either win or lose this contest, as the mirror image does not have a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to contest against. By design, the only way to hit (and therefore dispel) the mirror image is to target AC.
For clarity, the chain of events would be as follows: You attempt to target the wizard with a grapple. The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead. The mirror image is unaffected by grapple, and therefore the grapple attempt autofails.
Further support for this position available in the answers to this question here.
Even more support can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium (page 11, right-hand colum)
Does a grapple or a shove trigger the Tempest cleric’s Wrath of the
Storm or a Battle Master’s Riposte? The answer to both questions is
no. The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit
or a miss.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Nothing happens to the image. The grapple attempt just fails.
The pertinent mirror image rules:
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack
hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be
destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage
and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
And the grappling rules:
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than
you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you
try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack
roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength
(Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the
ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the
grappled condition.
The grapple is an attack (specifically a "special melee attack") but not one that can hit. As such, it would have no effect on the mirror image - subjecting it to the Grappled condition does nothing.
That's further supported by the fact that you cannot either win or lose this contest, as the mirror image does not have a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to contest against. By design, the only way to hit (and therefore dispel) the mirror image is to target AC.
For clarity, the chain of events would be as follows: You attempt to target the wizard with a grapple. The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead. The mirror image is unaffected by grapple, and therefore the grapple attempt autofails.
Further support for this position available in the answers to this question here.
Even more support can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium (page 11, right-hand colum)
Does a grapple or a shove trigger the Tempest cleric’s Wrath of the
Storm or a Battle Master’s Riposte? The answer to both questions is
no. The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit
or a miss.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
$endgroup$
Nothing happens to the image. The grapple attempt just fails.
The pertinent mirror image rules:
A duplicate's AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack
hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be
destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage
and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
And the grappling rules:
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than
you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you
try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack
roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength
(Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the
ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the
grappled condition.
The grapple is an attack (specifically a "special melee attack") but not one that can hit. As such, it would have no effect on the mirror image - subjecting it to the Grappled condition does nothing.
That's further supported by the fact that you cannot either win or lose this contest, as the mirror image does not have a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to contest against. By design, the only way to hit (and therefore dispel) the mirror image is to target AC.
For clarity, the chain of events would be as follows: You attempt to target the wizard with a grapple. The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead. The mirror image is unaffected by grapple, and therefore the grapple attempt autofails.
Further support for this position available in the answers to this question here.
Even more support can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium (page 11, right-hand colum)
Does a grapple or a shove trigger the Tempest cleric’s Wrath of the
Storm or a Battle Master’s Riposte? The answer to both questions is
no. The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit
or a miss.
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
25k483155
25k483155
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
answered 13 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
11.1k12764
11.1k12764
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Nice find on that other question! That Sage Advice Compendium will be a good addition to this answer, especially since it explicitly says "The grappling and shoving options (PH, 195) don’t result in a hit or a miss."
$endgroup$
– Vylix
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Wait: Why does an unopposed contest automatically fail?
$endgroup$
– The Nate
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the images are illusions. There is nothing to grapple.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Hubbard
10 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
You may also emphasize that this also means the image does not disappear. Since it can only happen on a hit; no hit, no losing an image. It took me a couple reads to get the "(and therefore dispel)" part.
$endgroup$
– MivaScott
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
"The Mirror Image roll is not in your favor, and you wind up targeting an image instead". Am I reading between the lines that if the roll is in your favor (e.g. : you target the actual creature), the grapple can be attempted? It seems obvious (and probably intentionaly left out of the equation by the OP), but wouldn't it be relevant to add the precision to your answer?
$endgroup$
– Meta4ic
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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$begingroup$
related : What counts as an attack?
$endgroup$
– Nahyn Oklauq
13 hours ago