What are some nice/clever ways to introduce the tonic's dominant seventh chord?












3















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chords chord-progressions modulation







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    3 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago
















3















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chords chord-progressions modulation







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    3 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago














3












3








3








I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chords chord-progressions modulation







share|improve this question
















I'm in C minor and want to modulate to its subdominant key of F minor. One way to do this is to introduce the tonic flat seventh chord C-E-G-Bb, which is the dominant seventh chord of F minor. Other than outright juxtaposing this chord next to the tonic triad of C minor, what are some clever ways of 'smuggling' Bb into my chord progression? Something with the descending minor scale perhaps?






theory chords chord-progressions modulation




theory chords chord-progressions modulation






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









Richard

43.1k699186




43.1k699186










asked 3 hours ago









Kim FierensKim Fierens

636610




636610








  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    3 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago














  • 1





    What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

    – replete
    3 hours ago











  • My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

    – Kim Fierens
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

    – Dekkadeci
    3 hours ago








1




1





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
3 hours ago





What's the style? This affects how exotic suggestions can be.

– replete
3 hours ago













My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
3 hours ago





My own mixture of baroque and romantic. ;-) Nothing too outlandish, please.

– Kim Fierens
3 hours ago




1




1





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
3 hours ago





The problem is that B flat is already a legitimate note in C minor. If you want an example of loads of B flats in a C minor piece, there's Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 3 in C Minor. Granted, he never goes to F minor in that piece, and he does juxtapose a Cm chord with a C7 chord in that piece.

– Dekkadeci
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1














Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

    – Kim Fierens
    2 hours ago



















1














You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






share|improve this answer































    1














    One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



    The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81463%2fwhat-are-some-nice-clever-ways-to-introduce-the-tonics-dominant-seventh-chord%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago
















      1














      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer


























      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago














      1












      1








      1







      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer















      Here are some simple ideas for getting from C minor to F minor without anything too outlandish. Obviously these are schematic. Since the dominant seventh chord is about as unsurprising as it gets, if you want to 'smuggle' the modulation in you have to go somewhere else first. The first example is about as simple as it gets without introducing the dominant seventh directly. The second feels more like it's going to F major, so F minor can be a slight surprise.



      enter image description here







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 2 hours ago

























      answered 2 hours ago









      repletereplete

      2,403518




      2,403518













      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago



















      • Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

        – Kim Fierens
        2 hours ago

















      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      2 hours ago





      Thanks a ton! Exactly what I was looking for.

      – Kim Fierens
      2 hours ago











      1














      You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



      If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






      share|improve this answer




























        1














        You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



        If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






        share|improve this answer


























          1












          1








          1







          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.






          share|improve this answer













          You don't need to smuggle Bb, it's in C minor already. The note that needs to be introduced is E natural.



          If you want something a bit less obvious, try Cm, Bb, Bbm, C7b9, Fm.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 hours ago









          Laurence PayneLaurence Payne

          36.2k1669




          36.2k1669























              1














              One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



              The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer




























                1














                One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer


























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here






                  share|improve this answer













                  One possibility is to go the stereotypical Bach route: prepare a normal cadence in the tonic C minor, but instead of cadencing on C minor, cadence onto a C7 chord.



                  The following example is in C major, but you still get the idea. Hear it here.



                  enter image description here







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 hours ago









                  RichardRichard

                  43.1k699186




                  43.1k699186






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid …



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81463%2fwhat-are-some-nice-clever-ways-to-introduce-the-tonics-dominant-seventh-chord%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      -

                      Popular posts from this blog

                      CARDNET

                      Image
                      CARDNET は日本カードネットワークが運営するクレジット決済ネットワーク。日本カードネットワークの略称としてもCARDNETが使用されている。 事件・事故 2017年4月15日午前11時8分からクレジットカードの決済がしづらくなる障害が発生した。障害は同日午後5時18分に復旧した。原因は、複数あるCARDNETセンターの拠点のうち1つで、2重化してあるL3スイッチの片方が故障し、1系統にトラフィックが集中したことによる輻輳が発生したため。対処としては、故障したL3スイッチ交換とシステム再起動が行われた [1] 。 出典 ^ 金子寛人 ( 2017年4月17日 ). “CARDNETのクレジット決済に6時間強障害、原因はL3スイッチ故障”. 日経コンピュータ. 2018年10月18日 閲覧。 この項目は、コンピュータに関連した 書きかけの項目 です。この項目を加筆・訂正などしてくださる協力者を求めています（PJ:コンピュータ/P:コンピュータ）。 この項目は、経済に関連した 書きかけの項目 です。この項目を加筆・訂正などしてくださる協力者を求めています（ポータル 経済学、プロジェクト 経済）。 This page is only for reference, If you need detailed information, please check here
                      Read more

                      Boot-repair Failure: Unable to locate package grub-common:i386

                      Image
                      0 I am on a system dual-booting Windows and Debian (usually using the latter), and a recent Windows update appears to have wreaked havoc on the Debian boot system. I managed to boot Windows again, but not Linux. Following online suggestions, I created a Live USB of Ubuntu, and booted from that. Then I have installed and run the boot-repair utility. The utility instructs me to type several lines including sudo chroot "/mnt/boot-sav/sda6" apt-get purge -y grub*-common grub-common:i386 To which I receive the error E: Unable to locate package grub-common:i386 I am given to understand the issue may have to do with having UEFI vs BIOS (I believe I have UEFI), but do not understand this well. In any case I have subsequently run the boot-repair BootInfo Summary utility which created the following file h
                      Read more

                      濃尾地震

                      Image
                      濃尾地震 『岐阜市街大地震之図』 歌川国利画 本震 発生日 1891年（明治24年）10月28日 発生時刻 6時38分50秒（JST） 震央 日本 岐阜県本巣郡西根尾村（現・本巣市） 北緯35度35分 東経136度20分（ 地図 ） 規模    マグニチュード（M）8.0 最大震度    震度7： 注1 福井県今立郡鯖江町、愛知県葉栗郡大田島村、東春日井郡勝川村 地震の種類 直下型地震 被害 死傷者数 死者7,273人、負傷者17,175人 注1：当時の震度階級では「激烈」 プロジェクト:地球科学 プロジェクト:災害 テンプレートを表示 濃尾地震 （のうびじしん）は、1891年（明治24年）10月28日に濃尾地方で発生した、日本史上最大の内陸地殻内地震。「 美濃・尾張地震 （みの・おわりじしん）」とも呼ばれている。辛卯の年に発生したことから 辛卯震災 と呼んでいる報告書もある。 目次 1 概要 1.1 震源断層 2 被害 3 各地の震度 4 前兆現象 5 報道 6 学術的な意義 7 地震防災 8 脚注 9 関連項目 10 外部リンク 概要 濃尾地震発生当時の根尾谷断層 濃尾地震を引き起こした根尾谷断層 写真中央を斜めに走る段差が根尾谷断層 濃尾地震は、1891年10月28日6時38分50秒に発生した。震源は、岐阜県本巣郡西根尾村（現・本巣市）、北緯35度35分、東経136度20分付近。河角廣 (1951) は岐阜市付近（北緯35.6度、東経136.6度）に震央を仮定し規模 M K = 7.0 を与え [1] 、マグニチュードは M = 8.4 に換算されているが、明治・大正期の地震については0.5程度大きく見積もられているとされる [2] 。また、震央距離と震度との関係など当時のデータから後にM8.0 [3] とも推定される。アメリカ地質調査所 (USGS) でも8.0としている [4] 。「根尾谷断層帯」が活動した典型的な内陸地殻内地震（いわゆる直下型地震）であり、これは記録が残っている日本の内陸
                      Read more